Work-Family Interface: Lessons from Joe Grzywacz

In this episode of Meaningful Work Matters, Andrew Soren spoke with Joe Grzywacz, the Associate Dean of Research and Faculty Development at San Jose State University in the College of Health and Sciences. His research expertise lies at the intersection of work and family life and their profound impact on health and well-being.

Grzywacz recognized early in his career that work can be a challenge to push through, but at other times, it can be a place to flourish and do well. The key difference is how work is designed and positioned to achieve the latter.

Midlife in the United States (MIDUS)

Grzywacz has been deeply involved in a landmark research project called Midlife Development in the U.S. (MIDUS). Since it started in 1995, this national longitudinal study of health and wellbeing has aimed to understand successful aging. MIDUS is unique because it measures social, biological, economic, and psychological factors across disciplines. Today, it is one of the largest studies of its kind, funded by the National Institute on Health.

Grzywacz oversees all areas related to the topic of work within the study - a critical factor for understanding health and well-being, given that the average person spends more time at work than just about anywhere else across the lifespan.

The Design of Work

There are different ways to think about the design of work. The National Institute for Occupational Health and Safety, for example, looks at job characteristics, which, boiled down, include buckets like:

  • What are the opportunities workers have on the job to exercise control or decision-making regarding their work?

  • How much external pressure or demand is put on workers?

  • Is what I am doing meaningful, or does what I am doing matter in a lasting way?

  • Am I treated fairly and equitably?

Grzywacz notes that these job characteristics are often very different for black and brown individuals, for younger workers compared to older workers, for men compared to women, etc. The job market is segregated in many ways that tend to benefit some people and not others.

The Impact on Psychological Well-Being

Based on about 40+ years of research, there are substantial consequences when these fundamental characteristics are unmet. These characteristics are tied to a concept called cognitive reserve. If you think of your mind as a muscle, the more you use it, the longer it will stay robust and healthy.

Likewise, many of these job characteristics are linked to how well your cognitive functioning holds up later in life and how physical health plays out in the face of chronic disease.

To Grzywacz, it’s crystal clear that work underlies our health and well-being, even if it takes a bit to catch up to us.

The Work-Family Interface

The work-family interface is all about how our jobs and families intersect. Grzywacz highlights that the two influence each other in various ways - sometimes good, sometimes bad.

On the one hand, we are caretakers and loved ones within a family structure, and on the other, we are operating in an economy that likely requires us also to be a worker. We are often splitting our time to satisfy both roles.

Finding a balance between these two important roles can be a challenge for all of us at one point or another. However, as Grzywacz explains, the synergy between work and life can also be enriching. In the Western world, this works very well. For example, for those who earn a living wage, or even a climbing wage, that’s a form of work-family enrichment because our work life ends up benefitting our family life.

Those with a synergistic or enriching work and family life have higher levels of well-being - and that is associated with less chronic conditions and lower stress levels, etc. A positive work-life interface benefits individuals, their families, organizations, and society.

Cross-Cultural Differences

According to Grzywacz, the research shows that job characteristics are relatively universal across cultural contexts.

By contrast, there are distinctive cultural differences when combining work and family. In the US, we’ve lived a ‘segmented reality’ throughout the industrial area. This means we spend 8 hours a day at work, then come home and attend to home life. In the US, work tends to be viewed as a different space than our family life.

The US is relatively unique in this separation. Other parts of the world see work and family as more integrated. For example, one might say they work for their family, and their commitment to their family is reflected in their work.

The Research on Alienation

Another area of Grzywacz’s research is alienation. This refers to when a worker is separated or alienated from the more significant impact, meaning, or context of their work AND the other individuals who are part of the final product.

The evidence tells us that alienated work is linked to a variety of mental health including depression. We have only recently connected this concept to the biology of successful aging. People with higher levels of alienated work show more wear and tear on their bodies at an organ and tissue level than those who experience less alienation at work.

Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Grzywacz offers a reflection on pursuing meaningful work. He urges listeners to consider the balance between seeking meaning in work and finding contentment with what they have. He posits that while meaningful work is important, the constant chase for the 'perfect' job can lead to dissatisfaction and overlook the value of other life domains.

For further exploration:

  • Mid-Life in the United States - link

Transcendent Values and Peak Experiences at Work: Lessons from Scott Barry Kaufman

In this episode, Andrew speaks with Scott Barry Kaufman about transcendence, humanism, and what Abraham Maslow would have thought about meaningful work today.

Scott has done groundbreaking research on intelligence, creativity, and human potential. He is the founder and director of the Center for Human Potential and the founder of Self-Actualization Coaching. Scott is interested in using his research, podcast, teaching, and coaching to help all minds live a creative, fulfilling, and self-actualized life. His early educational experiences made him realize the deep reservoir of untapped potential of students, including bright and creative children diagnosed with a learning disability.

Over the last few years, Scott has dug deep into the work of Abraham Maslow. In this conversation, we hear why Maslow never would have described our human needs as a pyramid. Instead, our journey to self-actualization and transcendence is more like a sailboat. The hull represents our needs for safety, connection, and self-esteem — keeping us floating on top of the water. Our sails fueled by exploration, purpose, and love — provide us a system of growth that allows us to travel great distances.

As the conversation deepens, Scott shares Maslow's vision for the psychology of the peace table, reflecting on the urgent need to understand human nature, division, and the potential for peace. The episode resonates with wisdom, challenging listeners to reconsider their perspectives on work, growth, and the profound possibilities embedded in meaningful living.

Potential and Limiting Beliefs

Kaufman's interpretation of Maslow's work focuses on being 'fully human' rather than just self-actualized. A central theme here is the concept of potential. Kaufman critiques the conventional, limiting notions of potential shaped by societal influences like education and management and advocates for a more dynamic understanding of potential, emphasizing hope and the importance of recognizing individuals' diverse and often hidden potential. This perspective encourages professionals to look beyond traditional markers of success and see potential as a constantly evolving attribute.

The Sailboat Metaphor: A Journey of Self-Actualization

Kaufman introduces the sailboat metaphor to describe Maslow’s journey of self-actualization. Unlike the pyramid, a sailboat represents the dynamic balance between safety and growth needs. The boat's hull is our system of security, made up of our needs for safety, connection, and self-esteem. This keeps us floating on the water, brings stability, and establishes the vessel for our journey toward self-actualization. The boat's sails are our growth system, made of our needs for purpose, exploration, and love - giving us the power to travel great distances on our journey.

Illustration by Andy Ogden

Kaufman underscores the importance of viewing these elements as part of an integrated system, where each aspect influences and is influenced by the others.

Theory Z

When Maslow was writing, there were debates about Theory X vs. Theory Y in the management literature. Theory X posited that workers are best motivated by a carrot-and-stick approach — punishment for poor performance and rewards for good performance. In contrast, Theory Y suggested that workers are intrinsically motivated and perform best when internally rewarded. Maslow introduced Theory Z, suggesting that workers are motivated by transcendence. This theory implies that beyond extrinsic rewards (Theory X) and intrinsic motivation (Theory Y), there is a higher level of motivation where workers are driven by the desire to achieve self-actualization and to align their work with their highest values. Maslow saw that work could be a place that nurtured human potential, self-actualization, and the integration of personal growth.

Final Thoughts

Reflecting on Maslow's vision, Kaufman discusses the "psychology of the peace table." Just after Pearl Harbor, Maslow witnessed a parade and felt a profound sense of not understanding the forces that drive human conflict, such as the motivations of Hitler, Stalin, and others. This moment made Maslow realize that he wanted to devote the rest of his life to understanding the psychology of peace. Maslow envisioned a peace table where people would sit and discuss human nature, hatred, war, peace, and brotherhood. This vision was driven by the belief that understanding these fundamental aspects of human nature could lead to progress in achieving peace. The psychology of the peace table implies a deep exploration into the aspects of human nature that lead to conflict and division, as well as those that can foster peace and unity. This is the ultimate meaningful work - work that has never been more needed for us as people or for the planet.

For those seeking further exploration:

The Double-Edged Sword of Meaningful Work: Lessons FROM Andrew Soren

In the bustling world of work and productivity, the quest for meaningful work has become a north star for many. But is all meaningful work beneficial?

Andrew Soren, founder of Eudaimonic by Design, hosts the debut episode of Meaningful Work Matters, which delves into the intricate dance between the highs and lows of engaging in work that matters deeply to us.

The Allure of Meaningful Work

Meaningful work is not a luxury but a fundamental component of our well-being. As Andrew elucidates, work that feels significant and worthwhile can enhance our commitment, engagement, and satisfaction. The benefits extend beyond the personal sphere, fostering a culture of creativity, innovation, and altruism within organizations.

The Hidden Costs

The research also reveals the dark sides of meaningful work: the potential for exploitation and burnout. When work has a high moral stake and becomes an obsession or when employers leverage our passion without decent working conditions, meaningful work can transform from a source of fulfillment into a wellspring of dissatisfaction, stress, and burnout.

The Crucial Element of Decency

Central to the discussion is the concept of "decent work" - safe, equitable, and dignified work. Drawing from the principles set by the Industrial Labor Organization, Soren advocates for a balance between meaning and decency. He argues that meaningful work, devoid of decency, can lead to exploitation and burnout. Conversely, work grounded in respect, equity, and security paves the way for true fulfillment.

Navigating the Path Forward

Andrew presents a blueprint for cultivating environments where meaningful and decent work can thrive. We need policies and regulations to ensure decent working conditions for those engaged in meaningful work. In organizations, we can design the cultures, practices, and leadership behaviors that enable those engaged in meaningful work to thrive. At the individual level, we can create interventions to help people understand what makes work personally significant and worthwhile and craft work that makes the most of an individual's strengths, values, and passions.

Your Role in Shaping Meaningful Work

As listeners, we're invited to reflect on our workplace and community roles. Whether you're a leader, policymaker, or team member, this podcast encourages you to consider how you can contribute to a more equitable and fulfilling work culture.

Join the Conversation

Meaningful Work Matters is not just a podcast; it's a call to action. As we navigate the complexities of the modern workforce, let's engage in conversations that matter. Share your thoughts, experiences, and aspirations with us. How do you define meaningful work? What steps can we take to ensure that work is meaningful and decent?

Visit our Resources page for insights and discussions on creating a better world through meaningful work. Together, we can make work a source of joy, growth, and fulfillment for all.

Resources to explore:

Hope: Finding the Will and the Way

Hope: Finding the Will and the Way

According to social scientists, there’s a difference between hope and optimism - one that’s important for our capacity to be resilient. We feel optimistic when we look to the future and believe good things will happen. But we feel hope when we stare into that future, anticipate the positive outcome, and believe we have a role in helping to shape it.

Embodied Resilience

Embodied Resilience

Our minds and bodies are deeply connected. It may seem like resilience is something that happens only in our heads, but our bodies provide an essential foundation for our overall health and psychological well-being. Fueling ourselves with the right kind of nutrition, getting enough rest, and staying physically active create the necessary foundations to keep us resilient through the toughest of times.

Motivation: Tapping into our human needs

Motivation: Tapping into our human needs

We can be motivated in many ways, but connecting to our inner ‘why’ is almost always more sustaining and powerful than external rewards, praise or punishment. More than four decades of research show that internal motivation is a strong predictor of high performance at work, at school, and in life. And in the context of adapting either to working from home or working in a very different way than we’re used to, helping people find that internal drive is probably one of the most important skills any leader should master.

High Quality Connections: staying close even when apart

High Quality Connections: staying close even when apart

High quality connections (HQCs) are positive interactions, even brief ones, that make you feel seen, energized, uplifted and engaged whether you do them virtually or face-to-face. In times of stress and “physical distancing”, one of the most important things we can do for our well-being is stay connected to others.

Responding to good news: Celebrating when things go right

Responding to good news: Celebrating when things go right

Most of us have probably spent a fair bit of time sharing bad news recently. We need that kind of social support to cope. But how much time have you spent intentionally sharing good news? Finding and celebrating the good stuff in our lives is a powerful strategy for resilience. Research shows that doing so increases our well-being (for both the person sharing the good news and the one celebrating it), makes us feel like we belong, and is a foundational ingredient to building healthy relationships.

Flow: Focusing for a better day

Flow: Focusing for a better day

Have you found yourself preoccupied by your news feed, depleted by multiple meetings, or distracted by little ones turning your desk into a fort? Many of us are feeling unsettled with our attention scattered on so many different things. Fortunately, research has shown that we can practice strengthening our attention muscles and return to a state of flow for a more enjoyable, energizing, and productive day.

Character Strengths: Harnessing the best of us when we need it most

Character Strengths: Harnessing the best of us when we need it most

We all have character strengths that come more naturally to us and tapping into them can help us stay resilient, maintain engagement and build connection - both when times are going well and also when we’re in crisis. This resource will help you become aware of your strengths, explore them and apply them when you need them most.

Tracking Daily Progress

Tracking Daily Progress

Working all day with lots of distractions can feel futile, as if you’re not making any progress and not getting things done. However, with a few tips and techniques, you can deliberately track your progress and feel better about accomplishing your goals.

Embracing a Growth Mindset: I can’t do it. YET!

Embracing a Growth Mindset: I can’t do it. YET!

When we believe we have the power to develop our capabilities (a growth mindset), we value effort and focus our attention on improvement. By focusing on what we can control, we can grow more resilient in the face of adversity.

Stress Mindset: How stress can work for you not against you

Stress Mindset: How stress can work for you not against you

We all know that stress is bad for you...right? Turns out, research shows that it’s the way you think about stress that impacts your health, more so than the actual stress itself. Shifting your stress mindset can curb negative outcomes and even lead to positive ones.

WOOP: Achieving the right goals for right now

WOOP: Achieving the right goals for right now

When we succeed at our goals, it’s usually because we have both the will-power and way-power to achieve them. WOOP is a tool designed to help you quickly figure out what you really want to do, why it’s important, and how to overcome the internal obstacles that might get in the way.